It's the sound of ideas from Ideastream Public Media. I'm Jenny Hamill, thanks so much for joining us. Ohio has changed course several times over the decades when it comes to its adoption laws. Before 1964, adoption records were open, and from September 18th, 1996, onward, the records have also been open. But for the hundreds of thousands of adopted people in Ohio between those three decades, the door to those past records was closed until Ohio enacted a law in March 2015. Adoption Network Cleveland was instrumental in this multiphase legislative work to open the state's adoption records.

So today, we're going to start the show with a discussion on Ohio's open adoption records and how that law impacted one woman and reunited her with her birthmother. Later, we're going to check in with the Ohio Newsroom on why farmland in this state is being snapped up by other countries. If you'd like to talk about adoption, then join in on the conversation at 866-578-0903. You can email us at SOI@ideastream.org.

So joining me to talk about adoption in Ohio, we have in studio Betsy Norris, the executive director of Adoption Network Cleveland. Good morning to you.

Betsy Norris: Good morning, thanks so much for having me.

Jenny Hamill: Thanks for coming in. And by phone, we have JJ Rett, an adopted person, a life coach, and a volunteer working with Adoption Network Cleveland.6 JJ, thanks for calling in.

JJ Rett: Thank you, happy to be here.

Jenny Hamill: Also by phone, we have Laura Reaman, JJ's birthmother, reunited with her via the open records law 10 years ago. Good morning, Laura.

Laura Reaman: Good morning, thank you for having me.

Jenny Hamill: Thanks for joining us. Betsy, I'm going to start with you. I want to back up a bit and ask why Ohio changed course and sealed adoption records between those years. So it was about three decades, from 1964 to 1996.7

Betsy Norris: So, uh, Ohio was a little late to the game. A lot of states swept the nation, a lot of states closed their records in the 30s and 40s, and maybe even 50s. Um, and Ohio had not done so. Um, and, um, actually, it's a longer story than I can probably get into, but my father had something to do with it. Um, as a new adoptive father, um, he was a young attorney, and he had been told the records were closed, so he investigated that, and they, at that point, they were open to the public, which is not what we're talking about changing the law to, sure. Um, and so he got a lot of other adoptive parents together and, um, got legislation introduced to close the records because he thought that's how it was supposed to be. The agency who told him it had already been done, that's a long story short, but yeah.

Jenny Hamill: Well, you did a great job explaining it. So tell me, how many people do you think were impacted by this closure of records over those three decades?

Betsy Norris: So, uh, Ohio had 400,000 adoptions between January 1st of '64 through 1996, which is an awful lot, um, many more than some other large states. So it was interesting to see.

Jenny Hamill: So hundreds of thousands, and it's a surprisingly large number that were impacted. Yeah. All right, JJ, you were one of those impacted when Ohio closed its records, and then you found out later in life that you were adopted. I'd love for you to share your story.

JJ Rett: Thank you. Um, so yeah, I was born and adopted in 1984, and when I was 20 years old, my adopted father told me and my brother that we were adopted. So I had grown up suspecting, I always knew something was up. My brother and I are very close in age, but, um, we were always told, no, you're not adopted, you're crazy. Um, and then one day my dad heard us joking about it, and he said, well, do you want to know the truth? And so he told us, and I mean, it was, it was devastating to learn that I had been lied to my whole life, to learn that I wasn't who I thought I was, and it took a long time to come to terms with this new reality that I came from another family and I'm related to to other people. And it all, it also all made sense. And so there was a lot of relief in finding this out, like, okay, yes, I, I feel like now I have an idea of what's going on in my life, because before it was a lot of, um, chaos and confusion, and I just felt like a person floating around. Um, and so then when I was able to get my original birth certificate and meet other adopted people, I suddenly felt grounded to the earth, like, okay, I come from somewhere, I come from someone, and I know who they are, and I stopped feeling like this, this balloon floating around, but I actually felt rooted to, I, I suppose, rooted to humanity, like I was born from someone.

Jenny Hamill: So you found out when you were 20, if you were born in '84, it still took you about, um, 9, 10 years to be able to get those records. Was your family supportive of you pursuing your adoption file and birth certificate?

JJ Rett: Yeah, um, yes, my, my dad was very supportive right away. He told me the agency that they adopted me from, and I called them when I was 20, and I was not able to get any information because at that time you had to be 21 in order to get your non-identifying information. And the non-identifying information is what an adoption agency has, um, on any individual who was adopted that the birth family has provided. So it's information obviously not identifying, but it, it included the ages of my birth mother's siblings and what they were doing, if they had a career, um, what her interests were. And so I was able to sort of see a sort like a picture of who she was. There was ethnicity information, um, but beyond that, that's it. I didn't know anything else about her. And so I had to wait a year to get that when I turned 21, and then I waited another nine years before the records were opened.

Jenny Hamill: I want to bring Laura into the conversation and ask, were you surprised when JJ reached out to you? And can you talk about how that happened, and was it a day you'd been expecting?

Laura Reaman: Sure. Um, was I surprised? You know, I was always hoping that she would reach out and find me. Um, and so that it just so happened that maybe in February or March, I saw on Facebook a, I don't know if it was an ad or something that said Ohio is changing their adoption law and opening the, uh, birth records for adoptees. I always thought they were always open, and so I was kind of disappointed that she didn't reach out earlier. But when I did get the message in April through Facebook, I was so excited, so excited. Um, and I knew that my life was going to change, but I, I couldn't have imagined how great it's been.

Jenny Hamill: Yeah, how has that reunion between you and your birth daughter been for, uh, you and the years since reuniting initially?

Laura Reaman: Oh, so at first we had a phone conversation, and we both had decided that we were going to take it slow. Mmhmm. And then two weeks later, I called her, and I said, I want to see you now because I've waited so many years for this, and I don't want to miss another minute. So we, um, we ended up meeting like two weeks later, re, you know, she meeting me again for the first time, um, and it was great, and it, it always has been great, and it's navigating those relationships and who she is now, you know, the last time I saw her, she was just this 7-lb baby, and now she's an adult, and I, I want to know everything.

Jenny Hamill: And JJ, how was it for you? Um, as you said, you felt like something was missing, and it seems like there's closure, there's a completion of your story. Um, how has getting to know Laura more and, um, you know, your biological mother more, um, been for you?

JJ Rett: Um, um, yeah, it was, it was exhilarating to find her, um, to finally see who I came from, to hear her voice. Um, when I first spoke to her on the phone, her voice sounded like, oh, I know this voice. It sounded like the voice that I hear in my head when I'm talking. Um, and it was, it was just incredible to hear her, to be able to know her. But I, it is not exactly the completion of my story, and in a sense, reuniting with your first family is like jumping into a whole new chapter. It, it opens the door to so much more.

Jenny Hamill: Well put. Um, so it's, it's certainly not, um, closure of any means. It's a whole new game.

JJ Rett: So it's an opening, really. An opening, really. Yeah, yeah. And I had to be, I had to think for myself, am I ready for this? Am I ready for what I'm going to find as soon as I contact her? I don't know how she's going to, I don't know who she is. I don't know how she's going to respond. I don't know what I'm going to find. And I had to think about once I do this, I have to be ready for whatever is going to come. So getting the support that I needed, grounding myself and feeling that I'm stable enough to open this door and, um, and then yeah, like Laura was saying, going at our own pace, um, knowing that I'm someone who, I don't have to learn the hard way, and Adoption Network Cleveland gave us many resources on how to make first contact, and I thought, yeah, okay, go slow, um, have open communication. And there was this sense of if I go slow, that will be the right way to do it. But as soon as Laura was talking about, I, I'll come to New York as soon as you're ready, I knew I wanted to see her too. I knew that I needed to to be with her.

Jenny Hamill: So let me ask you this, Betsy. I mean, this is an incredibly happy reunification, and I'm so thrilled for both of these women. Um, and I'm sure there are other stories like that. Um, but, but it's very complicate, I would, I would assume, um, not all the reunifications are this joyous because, you know, some, we don't know what the factors that went into the adoption in the first place. But I guess the point is transparency reigns supreme in kind of pursuing the opening of all these adoption records. So what kind of, what, why don't you tell me what, what you think the spirit of changing of this law is?

Betsy Norris: Uh, so, um, for adoptees to be able to have that right to know more about themselves inherently, and, uh, so for the system to have integrity and, um, as you said, transparency, um, truth of origins, um, you know, that is our DNA, and, um, that's important for people to know if they choose to pursue it. So the law is that an adoptee can request their birth certificate. Um, obviously, people don't have to, uh, but, um, it should be a personal choice rather than the state's choice. And it seems in some ways the legislative work has evolved, the laws have evolved in kind of understanding the perspective of every person involved in an adoption and trying to protect their best interests and, um, but not inhibit any side. So would you agree with that? Because I know there's a patchwork of laws related to adoption, but do you think there has been an evolution in the right direction?

Betsy Norris: Yeah, so I, I think society, our culture, um, you know, has has led the way, and then the laws kind of catch up. So yeah, there's been a lot of changes in adoption and adoption law over the last 15, 20 years.

Jenny Hamill: Well, we asked for your calls and emails, uh, 866-578-0903. You can email us at SOI@ideastream.org. We have Scott from Oberlin on the line. Good morning, Scott, give us your thought.

Scott: Hey folks, um, I'm adopted and, uh, but I always knew that I was adopted, and I always, you know, had heard that, you know, it was like there was this story about, you know, why my, uh, birth mother had to give me up for adoption and whatnot. And, um, but there was not a lot of information and everything. And of course, the laws at the time were, you couldn't look, so I just never really thought about it. It wasn't an option that I even really thought. But my daughters, my own biological daughters, uh, with my wife and everything, they wanted to find out. So I mean, they were both like young adults and stuff and started digging and and whatnot. And then they asked me about finding my, uh, original birth certificate, which they got. And then there was only a mom's name on there, you know, and her, uh, where she came from. Yeah. And, uh, and then the hospital, now I, I was born out of a, a hospital, Catholic hospital on the east side of Cleveland, and, uh, and apparently they took women in trouble from the East Coast. They would come to Cleveland to go visit Aunt Anne or whatever it was, and, um, and then they would, uh, you know, have their baby, they would, you know, have they, they would have had school and whatnot, and they would be told to go home and forget about it and everything, and it never happened. And so, and then I got adopted by these great folks and that raised me in Parma for years, and, uh, then we ended up, my, my parents bought a farm, I had, um, farm experience and, you know, it was, and, and my, my parents were cool, it was really cool. And, uh, but finding this stuff out, you know, my kids tried to track down the mother, and they had like a good lead, and then they reached out, but there was like the, the, the with the people that they reached out to were like, no, it's like, we don't, we don't know who you are, we don't know who this person could be. And, um, and then things laid there for a couple of years, and then my kids got genetic testing, um, and my daughter found out my, uh, that, um, she had a link with two people that were in the database and, and there was a question, do you want to find out more about people you're related to? And she answered yes immediately. There's an email intro from this fella that was like nine years younger than me saying, hey, my uncle and I took this genetic test, we don't know a lot, we don't have a lot of family and whatnot. And this led to that, and then they're comparing things, and then, uh, and then, you know, this fella calls his uncle, and the uncle calls back and says, I think it's, it's possible. And it's just been a blessing to to, you know, meet these people and, you know, get some back history, great kind of, it help, it helped explain some of my eccentricities and everything, you know, it's not my, you know, it's like my nature, it wasn't, you know, it's like it's just like genetically, it's like, okay, yeah, this, you know, it's like, okay, that's why he's like that, you know, because yeah, it's like his dad was like this.

Jenny Hamill: All right, Scott, I thank you so much. I appreciate you telling us your story. And, and I wonder, Betsy, uh, you know, that is very interesting because there is the whole social media, the genealogy that is, you know, enabling people, um, to find out genetically who they're related to. How has that kind of played into the world of adoption here in Ohio?

Betsy Norris: Uh, so the law that we're talking about that, um, was implemented 10 years ago, we worked for 25 years to get that passed, and so DNA testing wasn't a thing during most of that. And even when it finally was implemented, DNA testing was just beginning. Um, and so that's opened up the floodgates, you know, whether or not somebody has their birth certificate. Um, and so there's really no such thing as, you know, that type of secrecy anymore. Um, and so people need to understand that. Um, so but having your birth certificate is different than doing DNA testing. Some people want their birth certificate just for that documentation of their birth and and their reality, their truth.

Jenny Hamill: Laura, as a birth parent, I, I wonder what you think of closed laws that originally, I think, were intended to protect birth parents from discovery, uh, and, and obviously in Ohio have been switched now.

Laura Reaman: Yeah, so, um, I guess my thought is I think it's up to the adoptee. I, I think it's their right to know where they came from. Um, and I understand that there the law was created for the privacy of the birth family, but at some point, I think that needs to change and it's up to the adoptee to have that right so I think it's wonderful that they open the records I think um I think it should always be that way and leave it up to the adoptee to make that decision.

Jenny Hamill: JJ, I want to go to you because I know there are a dozen or so states that have sealed adoption records. How is that impacting you and shaping any sort of work that you're doing?

JJ Rett: Um, yeah, so as a life coach, what the focus of my work is really to help my clients connect to who they're they truly are at their core and not um their ego or who they think they should be in this world or who they've been told they are. And a lot of adopted people go through this, you know, I was born into one family and now I'm in another family, so I'm I'm this ethnicity now and we do these traditions in my adopted family. And a lot of what I'm working on is helping people figure out what their own personal values are and what resonates with them, not what they've been told they should, how they should be living. Um, so as far as closed records, I mean, I think it's unfortunate that people don't have the choice for themselves to find out their origins. Um, but in the work I do, I don't need to know if if you're you're um if you have received your birth certificate or not, it's really about getting to the core of who that person is.

Jenny Hamill: And Betsy, I wonder, does Adoption Network Cleveland lend its hand in helping, let's say, other states or organizations that are pursuing kind of legislative path to open records in any way?

Betsy Norris: Yes, um, we're, you know, over the 25 years it took us to get this law changed, um, there's there's a rich network across the country of people who are doing this type of work. And so, um, we've we've coordinated with lots of different states, some of whom have already passed the law, some are still trying.

Jenny Hamill: So then I wonder, what is the first step if someone's listening for an adult adopted person who wants to seek access to their original birth certificate, an adoption file? Uh, JJ, do you have some suggested tips on um what to do?

JJ Rett: Oh, well, uh, my first tip would be to call Adoption Network Cleveland because they have an amazing staff there, amazing resources, and that's what I did. And um, yeah, that's what I that's what I'd recommend is get the support with from the professionals who have been doing this.

Jenny Hamill: And is that the the most direct path? Is there a way to just find out from a State website or anything?

Betsy Norris: Um, they can apply for their original birth certificate through a form that they can get through our website or through the state Department of Health, division of Vital Statistics website. Um, and the state is pretty efficient. They'll, you will get your birth certificate in the mail within a few weeks. You have to get the form notarized. It costs $20. Um, so there's there's a defined process.

Jenny Hamill: And uh Laura, I wonder if you would tell me just as a a birth mother, you know, for for someone who is um maybe thinking about reunification uh what is some of the advice You' you'd give out?

Laura Reaman: Oh gosh, um I think the best advice I could say is be open. You know, when I placed my child for adoption was many years ago and so much has changed and lot of that is due to Adoption Network Cleveland so keep an open mind and don't be afraid to reach out yourself you know if you're curious about that reach out otherwise you're G to spend your life wondering.

Jenny Hamill: Betsy, we're talking a lot about adults now who are affected by adoption and their birth parents and their adopted parents, but let's talk about the current state of the need in Ohio and how many kids are there in Ohio that need to be adopted and maybe in our region?

Betsy Norris: Um, so let me on the on the last question, let me um just comment that people in my opinion should get support while they search and so that's where adoption that where Cleveland should come in. So even if you get your birth certificate directly, you know, please reach out for support.

Jenny Hamill: And and why do they need that support? Is it it's a life-changing event? It's not something to go into lightly? It's good to you know be educated, explore your feelings, be ready um deal with expectations, those types of things.

Betsy Norris: Um, in the current climate um in adoption um there's a couple thousand kids in oh um waiting or maybe even 3,000 um waiting in foster care for adopted families. And so those are the kids that are um truly in need. Uh often those kids are a little bit older um they've obviously suffered trauma, they've been separated from their family because typically abuse or neglect. Um many times they're parts of sibling groups that um hopefully are placed together. Um so there's so that's very different than private infant relinquishment um which was more common in recent generation in you know past generations and part of the evolution in kind of approach to adoption last time you came on Betsy we talked about that we talked about the fact that there's an encouragement of if there's a Sibling Group maybe a family is uh amendable to adopting both of the siblings or all of the siblings which I'm sure is harder to do but so important maybe for uh that P that person's personal Arc so that's part of I think the evolution of the work of experts in this field.

Betsy Norris: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jenny Hamill: All right, well, we have run out of time, but I appreciate this conversation. My thanks to Betsy Norris of Adoption Network Cleveland, and my thanks to JJ Rett and Laura Reaman. Thank you both so much for coming on and for sharing your story with us.

JJ Rett: Thank you.

Laura Reaman: Thank you.